Saturday, October 29, 2011

H.R. 3012 - Estimation of EB category Cut-Off Date movement if it becomes a law


Saturday, October 29, 2011 | , , , , , ,

The Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act, H.R. 3012, was introduced by Representative Jason Chaffetz (R-UT) on September 22, 2011 and was approved by judiciary committee for consideration in the house. This bill still has long way to go but as few readers requested us to analyze the impact of this law on current cut-off date movements for EB category, we are providing some rough estimation in this article.

Summary of the Bill

The bill aims to eliminate per-country visa limits, which are currently causing severe backlogs in green card. As of right now, the Immigration and Nationality Act allows for only 140,000 employment-based visas to be allocated each year.  At present, the percentage of visas that can be allocated to any one country is capped  at  7% percent of all of the employment-based visas available.

Under the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act, the per-country limit on employment-based visas would be eliminated by 2015 after a 3 year phase-in period (FY 2012, FY 2013 and FY 2014).  During the 3 year transition, the vast majority of Employment Based visas would be allocated on first-in-first out basis in order to eliminate the current backlogs.

As pointed by one of our reader, an amendment presented by Rep Lofgren to this bill was approved by the committee. As per the amendment, final rules as followed will  beapplied to EB2 and EB3 category only. No change in rule is expected for EB1, EB4 and EB5.

In FY 2012, backlogged pending cases irrespective of country with earlier priority date would receive unreserved visas - 85% of the visa allocation within a category with respect to . In FY 2013 and FY 2014  they would receive 90% of the visa allocations within a category. There is a limit of 25% for reserved visas and 85 % for unreserved visas that could be made available for a single country under this bill. Reserved visas will be only available until FY 2014 (and in general will be used by ROW-M-P based on current backlog). After FY 2014, all visas (there will be no reserved or unreserved visas) within a category will be used strictly for backlog reduction solely based on first-in-first out (FIFO) regardless of country of birth. Please note that there is no change in spillover rules, unused visas will be allocated regardless of country  strictly based on priority date from one category to other category during later quarter in a fiscal year.

Regardless of these updates estimation do not change, as at no point any country for first three phase in period will use more than 85% of the limit.


Estimation of cut-off dates movement each year if HR 3012 becomes a law

We have summarized the estimation of cut-off date movements for EB category if HR 3012 will become a law effective 30 September 2011. In general, EB2 category will be backlogged for 3-4 years whereas EB3 category will be backlogged for 8-9 years. During estimation of such cut-off dates, it was assumed that EB2 category will not receive more than 15000 spillovers or unused visa. 15000 seems like far optimized estimation after considering that with this new bill, EB2 backlogged countries would receive spillover from EB1, EB4 and EB5 (not EB2-ROW as allocation are very less). With time and current backlog, we expect EB5 at best would yield 5000 and EB1 only 10,000.

It is also assumed that EB2 category will not be current for quite some time as  EB2-ROW will be backlogged until 2015 and new EB2-IC demand will always be replenishing inventory. That said, EB3 will not receive any spillover anytime soon. This is an assumption and reality may be different. EB1 category is always assumed current for sake of simplicity in calculations.




Generally Reserved  will be used by ROW-M-P; Unreserved will be used by I-C for initial years


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354 comments:

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CM_USNonImmigrants said...

Interesting!!! Amount spent looks enormous.

Anonymous said...

cm good day! im from eb 3 philipines with pd january 30, 2006..based on your predictions i will be current by january ..is there a chance for me to get a visa ? or i have to wait another 2-3 yrs if HR 3012 will be amended..what is the chances i can get a visa because of this amendments?

Guest said...

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2011/11/29/house_votes_to_end_country_limits_for_worker_visas/

Guest said...

Can someone explain me the difference in the dates for reserved vs reserved? Who will come under reserved?

Guest said...

reserved vs unreserved?

Jeet said...

hey CM, my PD is May04 under EB3. If the bill were to be signed to law today, I would be current since according to the chart, unreserved EB3 for PDs upto Dec'04 will become current?
Am I right or Am I right :)

Thanks in Advance

kexy said...

Hi CM,

personal question: What is your subjective opinion on HR 3012? Be approved or not?
Thank you very much

nolipunzalan said...

If this become law, what will be the cut of date for EB3P?

Rajiv said...

This is same actually everyone is looking for their benefits.I am talking about ROW people.You guys need to be unite and raise voice like Indian.Earlier white ruled india and now it seems Indian will rule White.If Indian had waited for 10 years than the story repeats even ROW have to wait for 10 years now.This is not fair.We should call senate and send email to Senator.
SP

SP said...

Instead of asking question to CM please send email to oppose this bill.This is not fairness this is Indian BIll to make little India.

Sonia said...

sounds like Rajiv(what a unique name, your folks came up with this one on their own?) is a sulking fruitcake :)

Deepachava said...

July 2007 EB3 India PD. When would this date become current?

Ar_layan said...

What is reserved and unreserved little bit confused

Peter said...

I am not familiar with the PD calculations. I am EB2-ROW@NSC, PD 10-Dec-2010 (as printed on i140 approval), i485 ND Sep-20-2011 and Current (based on the latest visa bulletin). Based on trackitt data, I should expect i485 processed sometimes in Jan or Feb.

If the HR3012 bill becomes a law before Xmas, how much longer should I wait for the i485 to be processed?

Guest1 said...

As Jerry Maguire would say: "Show me the money" and you can get what you want... From the looks of it, the lawmakers are being bribed into passing this bill.

guestz said...

Thanks for this great post, CM.

I am in EB3 India - Mar 2005. When do you think that will be current?

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

Senator Grasslet would like to place hold on this bill.

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/node/12604

Patinghangin said...

yep bad for eb 3 PH and ROW. Much as my family and I are retrogressed in this situation (my PD is 4 Oct 06 PH), I have to say this bill is FAIR and JUST, skill over diversity

Vikas said...

my priority date is EB-3 April 2006 India, if this bill is approved when can i file my I-485?

Patinghangin said...

this analogy is a bit lacking but much as I hate to admit, I agree this is FAIR and JUST -- skill over diversity, what America needs at the moment.

My PD is 4 Oct 2006 EB3 PH

nolipunzalan said...

It seems that CM is right. Long way to go for this bill.

Rajiv said...

How long it will take to remove hold from senate?

SK said...

Hello,

So If I understand this right the last table you have in there, if this law were to be passed, on Jan 1'st 2012, the cut_off date for EB2 would be 22 June 2008 and on Jan 1'st 2013 the cut off date would be 1 Jan 2010?

Also what is the difference between reserved and unreserved quotas?

Thanks for your insights.
-S

Rajiv said...

CM,

How long do you think this bill will take to pass if possible?

SP

ROW said...

No

Guest said...

Thanks CM!!

Can you please explain what can be the potential impact of this hold.

Thanks

Indenver2006 said...

I hope this bill DOES NOT PASS. As a ROW immigrant (EB3) I've been here 6 years, with at least another 4 to go. This bill will be DEVASTATING for all ROW applicants. I've been waiting 4 years (lived here 6) with at least another 4 years of waiting to go - if the bill passes it will be 2020 (according to basic estimates) before my PD becomes current. Thanks India - forget Hispanic nation, this will be a HINDU nation.

Concerned said...

I also agree with you. these people are pushy - try to do business with them. They're not for fair immigration reform, they're for INDIAN immigration reform. Forget Hispanic nation fears, it will be a HINDU nation before you can say Ghandi.

fight-this-bill said...

Your article is flawed. The per contry limit is causing severe backlogs for two countries only. How dare this bill be considered where it is basically giving priority to India and China. What about the rest of the world? We're waiting too you know!

Anony said...

laughable , this bill is not giving priority to IC.

Row said...

please help support Senator Grassley at NumbersUSA.com. please register.. Send your thank you letter.

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/november...

Brpajr said...

please help support Senator Grassley at NumbersUSA.com. please register.. Send your thank you letter.

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/november...

Gonzalo said...

years, not sure how many. but for this bill will never approve, if it is bound for approval than it will happen around April or May 12. so u r safe.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

Chaffetz to meet Grassley

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/53030697-90/bill-immigration-lee-visas.html.csp

Guest said...

Thank you tracking this CM

Does this mean that any chance of this bill making to Senate before end of december is now out of the window?

Thanks!

Guest said...

This has nothing to do with NumbersUSA as there will be no increase in total number GC's

savian said...

My pd is July 14 2006 EB3-Phil. If HR3012 becomes a law, will I be affected? How much more will I have to wait.

okc said...

you can oppose the bill here:

http://www.petition2congress.com/5677/oppose-hr-3012-its-companions-1857/

Courtney said...

If most of them worked in IT-Tech industries, that would be all right,
BUT these Indian "IT consulting" companies are in fact fraudulent
immigration instruments helping thousands of Indian to immigrate
illegally. As soon as they get GC they get jobs in services, at
Airports, in restaurants. Most EB visas have been claimed by these
fraudulent companies. The US CIS fraud detection team is currently
investigating fraudulent cases. Do not think that you can fool the
government. There is a plenty of articles on the Internet about it.
Senators, do some inquiry into this serious matter before you vote! Do
not let Indians fool the American public.

Do the USA really need need these high-tech imposters?
Congressmen Chaffetz is serving lobbyists interests and supporting pure lies. say a loud No to this bill.

Shish said...

http://www.petition2congress.com/5665/support-fairness-high-skilled-immigrants-hr-3012/?m=2514665

Please petition to support the bill

Anony said...

Just to get your GC Courtney is lying...Courtney, Please behave and read 10 times about what you say.
You dont have numbers to prove anything but go to any Hi Tech company ,STEM department of any univ , search research papers by PHD's or may be watch spell bee on ABC.... and you will get the answer.....lawmakers and everybody in US have seen that and thats why 3012 is here to stay.
I am sure there will surely be something to make ROW also happy but lying,hate , false allegations will not give you anything except wrinkles on your face.
yes, there are some people who misuse visas so push congress for stricter enforcement but please give some numbers to substantiate your thoughts(which i know are not there). Support HR 3012

Shish said...

The numbers are still less than those who oppose it..

Wake up and sign .. and if possible call senators (as would be voters)

danie don said...

Courtney,

Please do not try to create animosity between IC and ROW. We both face same issues and should fight this out together. At least consider that IC professionals far outnumber ROW and if it becomes a policy of IC professionals to hate ROW, ROW professionals stand to loose. You may not lose as an individual, but will lose as a community. Let us keep it sane and stop insulting each other.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

it will add at least 2.5 years to time predicted here http://us-non-immigrants.blogspot.com/2011/01/when-will-i-get-my-green-card-green_20.html

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

I believe they will still go hand in hand as EB3-I is more backlogged compared to EB3-C. Dates can end little bit here and there but I do not see big leaps compared to EB3-I. Do not forget that EB3-C has very high CP demand (as large as 30-40%)

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

1. If it will pass in Senate, it can take anywhere from Feb-Mar 2012 to become a law.
2. In any case your case will not be approved before you are married. You will be fine.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

This bill when passed will increase your wait-time by 2.5 years from current estimation. I am not sure if/when this bill will be passed, but more it will be delayed more it may be enacted from next year. As of now I do not see anything that this bill will be considered in Senate before December 2011. We will keep you informed.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

Reserved will be used for all the states which are not top two backlogged countries (Mostly ROW - Mexico - Philippines)

Unreserved will be used for the top two backlogged countries (India and China for next 2 years)

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

Yes you may be right or right :) if today. This may change if bill will passed in Feb-March 2012 because by that time almost half year allocation M-P-ROW will be used so dates may or may not reach May 2004.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

Same as EB3-ROW

Paul Van Brenk said...

Finally a good proposal which would help all in EB2/3 (and some comments why the current HR3012 proposal is bad for most).

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2011,1205-shusterman.shtm

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

If this law passed you may still need to wait 3-4 years ( trust me which is way better than current scenario)

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

See my reply below.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

In any case, law or not you will receive GC around Jan Feb 2012.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

FY 2013 if this becomes law else you need to wait for long time.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

3 years from today.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

It is unto majority leader or senate judiciary committee leader to ignore hold and continue with voting. This bill need to pass committee voting and then in Senate with more than 60 votes without any filibuster.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

No that was for the law to be passed on October 1 , 2012. Estimation will be fairly different if this law will take time to pass. With each passing month around 12000 visas will not be available and will be consumed as per current INA Act 202.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

I am not sure but if there is bottleneck it should introduced in Senate before Feb-Mar 2012. Anything after this means that it will be too late to become law retroactively from this fiscal year. If passed in Senate with start date next fiscal year it needs to be reconsidered in House again with amendment.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

This may mean longer it could take for this bill to be considered in Senate.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

Article is flawed in what sense? Can you elaborate?

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

I would say yes.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

You will need to wait until October 2014 in this case.

darude 360 said...

I oppose HR3012. For those who wishes to continue supporting the effort, please go to the following website:
http://www.petition2congress.com/5677/oppose-hr-3012-its-companions-1857

darude 360 said...

I oppose HR3012. For those who wishes to continue supporting the effort, please go to the following website:
http://www.petition2congress.com/5677/oppose-hr-3012-its-companions-1857

darude 360 said...

I propose that Congress should consider suspending the visa lottery for 2 years, and use the 100,000 visas which would have been given to lottery winners to those stuck in the EB backlogs.
Lottery winners are chosen at random and are not required to have job skills that are useful to our economy or even family ties in the U.S. Clearly, encouraging professionals whose skills are in short supply and who are already working lawfully for employers in the U.S. is more important that allowing people to immigrate randomly.

AmeriBoy said...

India will rule the white? That will never happen. The demise of this bill will prove all Indians that they will never rule USA, much less the world.

Guest said...

The more I read the bill, the more I realize it is a mess.

For instance;

1) The reserved visa section says that not a single country can take more than 25% of the reserved visas (ROW+M+P). That means 1,500 visas for
year 1, and 1,000 for year 2 and 3... more importantly, that would mean USCIS would need to keep track of how many visas are issued FOR EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY... or at least any country that receives more than 1000 green cards per category ... haha.. what a mess

2) For the unreserved visas, any single country can not used more than 85% of this visas. This means (85% x 85% for year 1), 26,010 and (85% x 90% for year 2 and 3) 29,070. More importantly, since India would get these visas, it means China would get the remaining 15% of the reserved 85% which is 7,990 for year one and 8,460 for year 2 and 3. Well, guess what, the demand data for China shows they have 4,550 cases pending up to July 2007... So, does that mean that as visas are assigned the China cut-off date would be 2010/2011 or current while all the other countries are retrogressed?

This bill is a piece of work, they could not have made it more complicated. The more I look at this I think (and hope) the ROW EB3 category will get more than the advertised 15%/10% simply because the demand from China won't be sufficient to utilize all the unreserved visas.

Gumby said...

Stop beating on Courtney, she is 100% correct.

SP said...

CM,

Can you please tell me when i will be current EB3 ROW April 28th 2006 if HR 3012 will not pass?
Thanks
SP

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

If not passed you should current around June-August 2012 time frame

SP said...

CM,

It takes 5 months to be current for April?.I guess there are only 12000 waiting a head of me.

Thanks
Rajiv

SP said...

CM,

Do you think I will make it ?Since December is almost gone and if possible they will start in Feb again in senate?

Thanks for your thoughts.
SP

darude 360 said...

DO NOT reward those CROOKS!
70 years waiting time for Indians and Chinese is a downright lie. Up until January 2005 all employment categories were CURRENT! Checkout the Visa bulletin from December 2004. http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/bulletin/bulletin_1343.html
After that, crook Indian companies applied H1 and PERM for thousands of Indians.
PLEASE STOP THIS BILL!

Gumby said...

100% agree with you. I work with a lot of indians and a lot of them are not qualified to be in an H1B IT position. A lot of them lie in their resume. When you interview them on the phone, for and interview you are not sure if you are really talking to the real person or one of his friends. America wake up before it's too late.

Gumby said...

The problem is the indian liars. Immigration Voice liars. USCIS should start investigating all those indian IT companies in this country.

Gumby said...

There is nothing to make ROW happy. Indians lied to the congress. ImmigrationVoice lied to the congress.

Ss said...

Darude 360 , watch out your words. I wonder how do you work, when you don't know how to respect others.

Rowers, instead of tieing up with anti immigrant groups and people, just stop and think for a second. So far you enjoyed preference. Now time to understand everyone is equal. We all are one community. If we divide, we all fall.

Yes hr3012 said...

Gumby,
Thought of slight delay agitates you so much and prompts you to attack others in your own community as liers? Wow.

What makes you superior than a chinese or an Indian? Nothing. You were given preference by mistake and h.r.3012 is an effort to correct it.

SP said...

CM,

Do you think i will make it for PD ROW April 28th 2006?

Thanks
SP

Guest said...

Everyone doesn't come in that category. There are genuine sufferers. If u think if h1b is fraudulent impose strict rules on allocating them. HR 3012 has nothing to do with it.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

12000 is known demand. There is lot more people who becomes eligible once date become current who had previously not applied during July 2007. So, yes it may take that much time as with EB3-ROW, you will never get whole visa allocation that we think of.

Anony said...

Gumby, I dont know who you are, but listen, pls listen and then speak, show some numbers. You sound like a closed system, you have closed your eyes and ears and just speaking few lines again and again.
i am sure you can be better than that..

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

Buddy you will be in, trust me.

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

yup

Alice from Europe said...

Indians and Chinese are NOT the best professionals in the world! There are plenty of other IT professionals in the world much better than them just are not as so desperate to emigrate to the U.S. - for instance, Russians, Germans, Romanians or French. Indians and Chinese do anything to emigrate to the U.S. because there are millions, mostly poor and hungry. This is the only reason that they register with despair in a row with a duration of 25 -30 years. When you get bored of waiting are pushing for Amnesty, do not even think to go back to their country! They are not entitled to the DV Lottery millions that already was came here, so now they try to monopolize all EB visas. Specialists from Rest of the world have other options, are not obliged to work exclusively in the U.S. - why are fewer in ROW and are not willing to wait decades a GC. If this law passes, experts from Rest of the World will go to other countries will not want to stay and work in the U.S. What percentage of Indians and Chinese (including their biger families) who received EB GC last years have BS university degrees, masters degree or PhD? Do the calculations and see that each skill worker from India or China wants faster green card just to save his big family and relatives from starvation. They bring all their relatives and acquaintances in the U.S., without qualification and without education, so US have millions of Indian and Chinese EB unrelated to the program - gas sellers, pizza makers and other "skill workers" like that... Rest of the World EB skill workers brings in U.S. his wife (and her is over qualified) and 1-2 child, not all uneducated and uncivilized relativs. Think before say YES or vote this stupid law that brings major disadvantages for U.S. citizens, diversity and democratic principles.

Alice from Europe said...

I believe that Europeans are more civilized than the Indians, but that I did not claim to give me more than the 7% as we have now in ROW.

In our office is one Indian IT engineer. He does not use toilet because collect feces in a bag and bring them home. His explanation was that indians use as human poop to fertilize plants and tells us that this is an Indian tradition. U.S. tradition (and civilized countries tradition) is to make your needs in the toilet, not on the floor. According to another Indian engineer, in their culture one hand is for toilet and one hand for eat. No comment - it is another tradition! We in Europe are using water, soap and toilet paper. We use cutlery at the table and we obtain fertilizers in other way, adapted to XXI century not by those of antiquity.

Think better of it, before say : 'What makes you superior than a chinese or an Indian?" If this stupid low passed that will bring millions of wierd skill workers and their relatives with strange traditions and bad education.

Gumby said...

Great post!!!

Gumby said...

Why should India and China get 90% of green cards when they are not 90% of the population. Today I was asked to train 3 indians that were supposed to be qualified for a job they were hired to do. The reason is that they lied in their interview.

There is no way Indians have to wait 70 years.

HR 3012 = diversity, I don't think so. HR 3012 = Fairness, no way. The world is not 2 countries. What about France, England, UK ....... why should they get moved to the side by fraudulent Indians. This bill was lobbied by Immigration Voice. They silently lobbied this bill. They know the whole thing is a scam.

My priority date is July 2006 EB Row. Why should I wait another 3 years. I played by the rules for the past 10 years. This HR 3012 is not about playing by the rules. It is about scamming people who are already in the system.

This bill is bad for immigration and for americans.

Gumby said...

You are not equal if you skip the line.

Gumby said...

HR 3012 will allow more crooks in the country.

Gumby said...

it's obvious, 70 years to get a GC for indians, no way!!!

John said...

Poor Ignorant Alice....

SS said...

2 cents. Do Yoga. You seem to be troubled a lot.

Guest said...

Stop attacking people based on race, Grumpy. Oops... Gumby. LOL.

Guest said...

Use facts rather than just saying "Europeans are more civilized".

Your words "Strange traditions" Shows how intolerant you are. Go live in your shell.

Rich said...

I work with many Indians and I always found them hard working, Responsible, coherent thinkers with astonishing ability to complete the work in time and beyond quality measures.

sam said...

This bill is not favoring a particular country, instead it will favor the real skilled people waiting for year. it boils down the the competition to person to person, not the country to country.

ROW...Bill never said that the ROW wont get the GCs, it just says, if you are real warrior, compete with the every person in the world including your bother and sister from your country. So dont cry... be a man.

Citizen... just because you are in boat, dont be so mean to immigrants. Dont forget that your father/grand father/ggf was a immigrant.

Think beyond the box guys.

Gumby said...

Wow, did really read the bill? It is favoring India and China. The bill was pushed by ImmigrationVoice.com, an indian base lying website. Put yourself in our shoes for a minute.... what if I cut the line and push you away. Think and by the way, go back to read that bill.

Gumby said...

Hey little indian lying pos, go read the bill.

Gumby said...

Yoga, lol ... go eat some tandori

Gumby said...

I doubt they were indians.

Alice from Europe said...

Moderator censored my message, he took what was most important - why I said that Indians are uncivilized and uneducated. That says a lot about freedom of speech on this blog, dominated by Indians and Chinese. Perhaps that is Indian and who is so limited ...

Alice from Europe said...

Proud To Be White it's not a crime [YET]... But getting very close! This message is a dedication for immigrationvoice.com

I have been wondering about why Whites are racists, and no other race is. Michael Richards makes his point and whether we like it or not, he is telling the truth. Michael Richards better known as Kramer from TVs Seinfeld does make a good point. This was his defense speech in court after making racial comments in his comedy act. He makes some very interesting points. Someone has finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this? "There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc. And then there are just Americans. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction. You call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman'... and that's OK. But when I call you, Nigger, Kike, Towel head, Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey, Beaner, Gook, or Chink You call me a racist?!? You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you. So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live? You have the United Negro College Fund. You have Martin Luther King Day. You have Black History Month. You have Cesar Chavez Day. You have Yom Hashoah. You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi. You have the NAACP. You have BET. If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists. If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists. If we had White History Month, we'd be racists. If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce. Wonder who pays for that?? A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant. If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships. You know we'd be racists. There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US. Yet if there were 'White colleges', that would be a racist college. In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights. If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists. You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it. But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists. You rob us, car jack us, and shoot at us. But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist. I am proud, but you call me a racist. Why is it that only whites can be racists? There is nothing improper about this message. Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on. I sadly don't think many will. That's why we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country. We won't stand up for ourselves! BE PROUD TO BE WHITE! It's not a crime [YET]... But getting very close! "

Gumby said...

Awesome post Alice!!!

Alice from Europe said...

How many inventions, innovations and great scientific discoveries belong to Indian or Chinese in last 100 - 200 years? Very little of how many they are, over 2 billion...

When will belong to 75 or 85% of the technical and scientific achievements of mankind, they will be entitled to claim a larger quota (around 80%) for EB visas. Yet they are responsible only for the over populating the planet, road traffic chaos, immigration fraud, adjustment problems and understanding the principles of capitalism and democracy, issues of health and personal hygiene. HR 3012 is a stupid law! I hope that Senators are smarter than Reprezentativs and will notify the stupidity of so called "HR 3012 Fairness for high-skilled immigrants". This low is stupid and unfair!

Suresh EB3 Indian said...

Indians are real fuel in America's growth engine, reveals stu
dy
http://www.financialexpress.com/news/us-venturefunded-firms-indians-on-top/891326/

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Indians-are-real-fuel-in-Americas-growth-engine-reveals-study/articleshow/11213922.cms

Alice from Europe said...

The real reform would be the recapture of visa numbers which would benefit all immigrant professionals. Eliminate per-country numerical limitation is fair only to India. Rest of the world will have huge backlog because of this.
I DONT think this bill is the solution to the actual problem.

And as a result of this bill America will not be able to attract and retain diverse talent.

Do you know how many visa holders are working in US in H1, L1 and EAD? There are 6 Million of these folks 95% from India and China.

Do you know Indians companies in USA employ 1 Million Visa Holders mainly from INDIA! 99% of these companies employ Visa Holders; they don't hire a single American.

Top 10 INDIAN IT and consulting companies employ more than 2 MILLION VISA holders in USA in H1, L1 B1 EAD and they have less 100 employees as US citizens.

For the last 10 years 95% of all Workd Visa listed above is taken over by Indians and Chinease. India and China will monopolize EB visa number. This would discourager diversity - both in terms of country of origin as well as industry-type - for example, medical doctors, phisicians, chemists from any other country (besides India and US) would have to wait in line behind applicants from the IT industry.

The bill practically stops the visa stream for 200 countries other thank India and China; employers throughout the country will find it difficult employing foreigner other than a Indian IT expert!

It's stupid and unfair.

Thcricketfan said...

The comments from Alice are so predictable. Full of hatred and devoid of facts. This bill is a step in the right direction and removes the imbalances built in the the visa process.

The data about Indian companies not hiring American citizens is incorrect. Do you have any data to support that claim?

There is already a diversity visa program in place to take of the diversity issue. The employment based program does not and should not be changed for ensuring the diversity in population.

If you want to know about the contributions of Indians and Chinese people to US you can look at K.R.Sridhar (bloombox), Jerry Yang (Yahoo), Vinod Dham (father of Pentium).

IC folks bring a huge competitive advantage to US companies. Alice, look around yourself and compare the work ethics and sincerity of IC folks as opposed to others. The dedication and work ethics that IC people have is unquestionable.

You might have genuine concerns about the bill, but branding people from 2 nations as 'over-populating the planet' and responsible for 'immigration-fraud' reflects very poorly on you personally. I have met other people from Europe and thankfully they are quite unlike you.

I used to wonder how the Nazis were able to perpetuate so much hatred against one particular group of people. Reading your comments have helped me gain perspective on how bad, prejudiced and hateful people can be over the smallest issues. Thanks for that.

Alice from Europe said...

Do you have an obsession and is called IT! Indians are obsessed by IT because it's the only area in which they have a way. In all other areas of science and technology Indians are out of order; contribution to the progress of mankind is zero. For years nobody from other areas of expertises can't fit work visas and GC because of Indians from IT. US need specialists in all fields, H1B and EB is for all of this - architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, biotechnology, medicine and health, education, law, accounting, business specialties, theology, arts ... other. How many Indians want visas and GC for this? How many inventions and innovations you have in these areas? How many Nobel prizes have won? That scientists around the world, from all areas of science, technology and others expecting in line after the Indian IT because HR 3012 and companions! This means a stupid law with dedication to Indian and Chinese.

Even in IT - TECH Indians are some profiteers. This area was created by Americans and Europeans, developed by the Japanese, and you are limited to a small little part of software. Because of that small area of expertises you believe "the Indiansd is greatest and have right to 85%!" Without other sciences (processors, hardware and materials science) your soft's is a big zero, unusefull. U.S. not allowed to do research in other areas, can't give visas and GC for the Rest of the World specialists because is to much Indians from IT in this country! U.S. looking for remedies for the worst diseases on the planet, and need specialists for this projects! You come here from a country with high risk of tuberculosis and other diseases that bring in the U.S.

In Michigan big mechanical Engineering industry is collapsing, but they can not bring mechanical engineers for research in automotive, because is to much Indians from IT. American factories of food and medicines they need technicians, but can not give them visas because all is to Indians from IT!

In all sciences and technology Indians are out of order. You have not contributed anything even and now you ignore all science and technology areas, specialists from the Rest of the World for your own interests - IT. You are too selfish and retarded to understand these issues! Indians go to Best Buy and start to negotiate the price displayed on the shelf, because their are incapable of understanding the principle of supply and demand. How to understand the contribution of scientists from all world at human civilization? In India and China to move erratically, not obey traffic laws, you come in the U.S. and are taxi drivers here?!? And you claim 85% to EB visas?!? In fact, HR 3012 is the result of lack of vision from India and communists from China. This law shows how stupid and narrow-minded as Indians and Chinese, narrow vision of invadors. I have a feeling of deja vu! Chinese and Indians have invaded Europe many years ago. Now they invade the U.S.

Alice from Europe said...

Do you have an obsession and is called IT! Indians are obsessed by IT because it's the only area in which they have a way. In all other areas of science and technology Indians are out of order; contribution to the progress of mankind is zero. For years nobody from other areas of expertises can't fit work visas and GC because of Indians from IT. US need specialists in all fields, H1B and EB is for all of this - architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, biotechnology, medicine and health, education, law, accounting, business specialties, theology, arts ... other. How many Indians want visas and GC for this? How many inventions and innovations you have in these areas? How many Nobel prizes have won? That scientists around the world, from all areas of science, technology and others expecting in line after the Indian IT because HR 3012 and companions! This means a stupid law with dedication to Indian and Chinese.

Even in IT - TECH Indians are some profiteers. This area was created by Americans and Europeans, developed by the Japanese, and you are limited to a small little part of software. Because of that small area of expertises you believe "the Indiansd is greatest and have right to 85%!" Without other sciences (processors, hardware and materials science) your soft's is a big zero, unusefull. U.S. not allowed to do research in other areas, can't give visas and GC for the Rest of the World specialists because is to much Indians from IT in this country! U.S. looking for remedies for the worst diseases on the planet, and need specialists for this projects! You come here from a country with high risk of tuberculosis and other diseases that bring in the U.S.

In Michigan big mechanical Engineering industry is collapsing, but they can not bring mechanical engineers for research in automotive, because is to much Indians from IT. American factories of food and medicines they need technicians, but can not give them visas because all is to Indians from IT!

In all sciences and technology Indians are out of order. You have not contributed anything even and now you ignore all science and technology areas, specialists from the Rest of the World for your own interests - IT. You are too selfish and retarded to understand these issues! Indians go to Best Buy and start to negotiate the price displayed on the shelf, because their are incapable of understanding the principle of supply and demand. How to understand the contribution of scientists from all world at human civilization? In India and China to move erratically, not obey traffic laws, you come in the U.S. and are taxi drivers here?!? And you claim 85% to EB visas?!? In fact, HR 3012 is the result of lack of vision from India and communists from China. This law shows how stupid and narrow-minded as Indians and Chinese, narrow vision of invadors. I have a feeling of deja vu! Chinese and Indians have invaded Europe many years ago. Now they invade the U.S.

Melinda said...

Indians and Chinese already get 35% of EB green cards.

As everyone knows, most H1b frauds are related to Indians. These H1b abusers are in the line of getting green cards and they are the main reason that Indians need to wait for green cards.

The truth is, all Indians know some of Indians around the are here because of fake resume, and they dare not to ask these fakers out. So, the "BEST and BRIGHTEST" people say.... "Why not steal it from other people? So we can all be here and turn America into India?"

Interesting enough, if Indians are truly "BEST and BRIGHTEST", why don't Indians go back to the country which has 1.4 billion BEST and BRIGHTEST people there?

Also, India, with population of 1.4 billion, only has 7 winners of Nobel prizes. Germany, with population of 81 million, has 102 winners. What does that tell us? Bigger population doesn't guarantee more talents.

HR3012 is giving 85% to 90% of green cards to India and China. The rest of the world gets only 15 to 10%

NO to HR3012. This is NOT BENEFICIAL to USA at all. This is the bill that will turn USA into another India.

Melinda said...

I don't belive informations from Indians newspaper. One country with big coruption don't give as true informations in mass media.

RoyalEveryWhere said...

Mel,

The bill never said, do not allow Germans with such a briliance, 107 nobells, it just says compete with the
every other person in the world. When you are so sure of German brilliance why are you so scared of the bill.

Nobel is mesure of excellence? ha ha... for that matter, Obama got one for his dream of making peaceful world.

Or you mean countries like Nepal, Srilanka, uzbekistan and many other African countries are not in the nobel tally yet,
so non of them are genious like Germans do, should not be allowed to live here?

Or you trying to potray that the Germans got so many Nobels, so every German brother/sister I see here is worth winning a nobel,
Should be given a GC in a reserved cota and avoid competition?

Think wise man...use the one laying between ears.

If you think that some one is fake, its the process of evaluating the worthness of the person should be changed, no matter where is from.
But certenly NO per country, per nobel, per XYZ... it should be just me as ME.

Sorry if I sound harsh.

Gumby said...

Well said Melinda, SAY NO TO HR 3012 and put H1B indian fraudsters in jail for life.

Gumby said...

lol, these articles were written by indians. Liars liars liars. When I get my GC, I will make sure that my company never hires indians again. Say no to HR 3012 and get rid of indians fraud.

Melinda said...

Nobel Prizes are awarded by the Nobel Foundation of Sweden to men and women who have rendered the greatest service to humankind. Between 1901 and 2011, around 850 laureates have been awarded Nobel Prizes. Of these, at least 170 are Jews; 107 are Germans; 99% of this is from Rest of The World, not from India or China.

Indians and Chinese don’t have 85% of outstanding contributions in science, technology and culture or recognision by entire world - Nobel prizes, Fulbright Science and Technology Award; World Technology Award, SET European Awards for Engineering, Science and Technology; Japan Prize for science and technology; FEMS Materials Science and Technology; MIT STS; Toray Science and Technology Prize and many others...

Indians and Chinese don’t have 85% contribution at International Exhibition of Inventions, New Techniques and Products, Geneva, Switzerland; European Salon of Research and Innovations, Paris, France; International Salon of Innovations "Concours Lepine", Paris, France; World Salon of Innovations, Scientific Research and New Technologies "Brussels-Innova/Eureka", Belgium; "Technopol-Moscow"; International Business Forum "Russia-Canada", Toronto, Canada; Techmart Vietnam, IMS prizes for meat technology, The Harvest Prize...

Why scientists around the world, from all areas of science and technology must expect in line after the 85% of Indian and Chinese skilled workers because of HR 3012?

This means a dead of diversity with special dedication to Indian and Chinese. If you disrespect Rest of The World don't pretend to be respected! Even HR 3012 Indians and Chinese are profiteers. They don’t have contributions at human mankind, but pretend 85% rights in this area.

Student said...

http://in.news.yahoo.com/nobel-laureate-ramakrishnan-knighthood-051634053.html

Pter Lee said...

I like the detail given you.

Indian said...

When did measuring of talent in terms of Nobels/prizes won started? So you want us to think that since Germany won 102 nobel prizes every person who calls himself as a scientist in your country is talented than others.... GROW UP !!!!!!!

What you are saying is, It is okay to turn USA into another Germany but not okay to turn into India? Who are you to say that.

1.4 billion people never started any world wars, but congratulations to you, with just 81 million you managed to be center point of 2 world wars?

If your countries are working on the betterment of Mankind, why do you want to come out? This itself tells your intention.

Ahns said...

Not a fair comment. Any one in the world can apply Work VISAs. I am not sure why you are targeting Indians only. Just look at from the other end. Today, America is top in technology and don't you think there is a contribution from Immigrant workers on this? Think positive..

DareToCompete said...

USCIS has a separate 50K immigrant visas for the diversity program to attract the people from the countries of low immigration.
HR3012 is for employment based immigrant visas, issued to skilled workers. Why do you mix both of them and mislead people?

HR3012 is gives the equal opportunity to everybody irrespective of the country they belong. It makes the competition open to every body.
Now that the competition is open, the genius Jews and the intelligent Germans will have to compete with the every other person in the world for a immigrant visa now.

When you are so talented, why would anybody scared of competition.

DareToCompete said...

Oh..ya..I see how it feels like now. So if it puts you in wait, irrespective of its legitimacy of the bill you oppose it right?
Then have you ever thought about, what it feels like to a more/equally skilled guy, having waited a decade already, no guarantee of getting GC for next 5 years. where are as colleague gets it in 4 years. ( by now you would be thinking why would it take a decade...consider a Indian whose EB3 PD is Dec/2002). Probably never and ever…

Immigration visas are low hanging fruits to ROW, there is no enough competition, each and every body were getting, with 0 to 5 years waiting.
The bill may let everybody wait 6 to 7 years, but removes disparity in waiting that you don’t like that, so that is why all the dark come into picture people are bad, companies are bad, no skills, lobbyists, what else….

You got it buddy, why you couldn't read the bill correct.

If you are dare to particular nation, why don’t you revel yours first, guess it’s not anonymous.
Request, if some xyz company not ensuing law report it to INS/IRS/USCIS what so ever, that way it will help everybody.

DareToCompete said...

'dare to criticize '

Gumby said...

See this new article on HR 3012 and also read the comments at the bottom. It shows that most americans do not want this bill.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dispute-over-proposed-green-card-law-pits-brightest-immigrants-against-each-other/2012/01/03/gIQANdSKpP_allComments.html?ctab=all_&#comments

ScrewYou said...

The bill is nothing to do with Citizen. It is neither decreasing the total number of visas nor increasing the total visas.
It is about giving the equal opportunity to every individual immigrant irrespective of where he is come from.

Gumby said...

This bill is about screwing with Rest Of The World category and their lives. This bill is about letting Indians cut the line ahead of people who were there already waiting in line and played by the rules. This bill is about letting a lot of fraudulent and unqualified Indians in the country more easy. So Mr. ScrewYou s**** y**

Sooth-adipen-di said...

Alice , Being proud of your skin, Thats OK!, Don' be a racist, America is a Diverse Community, if you have issues with Blacks, Hispanics and Asian, Don't dare to immigrate to USA, By 2025 Hispanic will be majority(Source Census Bureau, US).
As far as Innovation goes, Google "GE Innovation Barometer" I hope you know that GE is not Indian company since you don't trust Indians/Chinese/Blacks.
If you are from Germany does mean you are a Nazi. every Community has it share of good and the bad.
Learn to respect and trust other skins especially if you want to live in USA, or you probably want a lesson from Martin Luther King JR.

PodiPorkriNai said...

You don't deserve to be in USA, you are a Racist, your comments are race based. Stay and post where ever you can practise your racism, nobody will edit your post.

RacistGoToJAIL said...

Yes, You should be booted from here, You Racists!

Rrpai said...

Yes Crooks like you Gumby, Watchout what you say ! As somebody in the blog said if you are German Does not mean your are a NAZI. Have respect for others.

Gulla said...

Yes America wake up , and throw out the race based people out.

Haram said...

Yes Totally agree throws people like Gumby out.

Chabariya said...

And you are so much obessed with your SKIN color and Racism, that you cannot think beyond that. Learn to respect people, because people from all countries live here and you will be a minority soon, what would you do then , talk about the Americans. You must me out of your mind, You don't deserve to be in USA. Show and get Respect

ChappuDa said...

I see the Grummy ness

Chama said...

And Gumby Grummped here..

Chama said...

Yes, Obviously now it sounds better if the line is cut for you Gumby Mr Racist, where in the world are you from?

Sooth-adipen-di said...

Google "GE Innovation Barometer" , That will show you some figures about innovation ranking of India and China. Don't make assumptions about any race, you talked about Germany, looks like you are German, So is it right for everybody to believe you are a NAZI, SO Don't make race based comments

Screw said...

We want diversity, not just bunch of under qualified INDIANS with 3yrs degree + some so called experience!!! to apply in EB3 category.

Screw said...

We are not SCARED at all, we are worried (: If you call these UNDER QUALIFIED INDIANS with 3 yrs degree + so called experience!!! qualified ppl, then I have nothing to say.
Indians and Chinese are already getting majority of the employment visas, and they are doing most of the visa fraudulent acts. So YOU dont try to mislead ppl.

Tscrew said...

Now you guys are even trying to pass a fraudulent act in US senate?? ...NO way!!! Dont bull shit to ROWers. You INDIANS are doing fraudulent acts with H-1B and with GC, and NOW you are talking about being a man!!! Come on guys...dont try to establish double standand here...just be a REAL man by showing your real talent...not by creating FAKE resume and experiences while applying H1 and GC.

Simon said...

This bill must be FAIR for American citizens, because is US IMMIGRATION LAW, not Indian or Chinese immigration law.
Development of a country in one field and one direction (IT) is completely wrong in economic terms. U.S. need professionals work force in STEM, not only Indian's computer experts!

80% of EB from India are in the IT, this will make huge negative impact on the US economy. In 2010, 22% of EB GC was for India and 33% for China, more than 7% cap per country. So, now Indian Voice asks for more… 75, 80, 85% in next 3 years.

Also, HR 3012 kills diversity; does not solve the illegal immigration, not create new jobs for Americans and not simplify the immigration law.

In the other hand... that bill does not solve anything; it's just moving all problems from the left pocket (Indian ROW) to the right pocket (Rest of The World ROW).

I can tell you that the feeling among the majority of ROW applicants is that the green card process is being unfairly monopolized by people from India. Namely that Indian owned firms in the U.S. but not create new jobs for Americans, just favor candidates from India, which gives Indians an unfair advantage over candidates from other countries who do not enjoy some kind of cultural connections like that to help them get an H-1 or EB GC.

This feeling is very widespread, along with the belief that the over subscription problem is largely due tech workers clogging the system after being hired by these India based consulting companies.

Now this huge bulge of EB3 cases from India will make everyone from countries with a small number of immigrants wait seemingly forever.

I'm just telling you why ROWers feel that they are being screwed over, while the nepotism, cronyism and cultural favoritism within the Indian community is being rewarded.




Development of a country in one field and one direction (IT) is completely wrong in economic terms. U.S. need professionals work force in STEM(Science, Technology, Economics and Math)not only Indian's computer experts!

75% - 85% of EB will be to India & China (IT workers) and this will make huge negative impact on the US economy.

Also, HR 3012 kill diversity; does not solve the illegal immigration problem, not create new jobs for Americans and not simplify the immigration law.

In the other hand... that bill does not solve anything; just moving all problems from the left pocket (Indian ROW backlogs) to the right pocket (Rest of The World ROW backlogs).

NO to HR3012 it's a wrong direction for US immigration law!

Simon said...

I understand - you don't care about the U.S. citizens or US economy, but do you want to immigrate in US. This is a non sense because YOU earn money here. Any U.S. work visa and GC is about citizens. When you applying for a work visa you ranked a U.S. citizen job; when applying for GC in that file is your intention to immigrate in U.S. The American Citizen decide if want you in US or not, if you can stay here or not. That means Democracy! You can not force US to accept you only because do you want to stay here; US Citizen decide if give you privilege of stay here.

So, HR3012 is limited and unnecessary, shows that Indians want to stay in the U.S; how cares what US citizens want? Indians want to stay at any price - stealing visas from other ROW and forcing U.S. law to give them all GC . Who you think you are? You can not ignore U.S. CITIZEN in his country!

Gumby said...

Say no to HR3012 and go visit this website.

http://americabenefits.org

Bracksy said...

Say NO to Diversity Visa Lottery instead where good-for-nothing parasites get to live in the US on taxpayer money paid by EB immigrants

Gumby said...

Say no to both and I agree with you!!!!

Gumby said...

I was in line first and you indians want to cut in fr0nt of me. Liars liars liars. Indians are the racist ones.
SAY NO TO HR 3012!!!!

Gumby said...

Diversity right, how about most of the GCs going to India, mmmm that is not diversity at all. Indians definition of diversity = Give me all you have and your newborn.

Say no to Hr 3012 and stop the fraud from Indians.

Gumby said...

Plain in Simple, you guys are cutting the line with lies. 70 years, no way.  Diversity my ass. Say no to HR 3012 and stop indian fraud especially from people like Mr Screw You!!!

CM_USNonImmigrants said...

GOP Senator Grassley still blocking Irish and hi-tech immigration bill in US Senate Attention now on Senator Scott Brown after comments bill was “ready to pop”By NIALL O'DOWD,
IrishCentral Founder
Published Monday, March 12, 2012, 7:16 AM
Updated Monday, March 12, 2012, 11:10 AM
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9 Comments See more: Irish Immigration   Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa Photo by AP

0diggsdigg Republican Senator Charles Grassley of Iowa continues to block passage of an E3 immigration bill for Ireland, and a hi-tech bill for India, China as well as some higher quotas for Hispanics.Grassley had looked likely to do a deal with both Democrats and members of his own party, but hopes for that have now faded according to sources who spoke with IrishCentral.The man on the spot appears to be Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown who stated a few weeks ago that the E3 bill was “ready to pop”. However, there has been no significant developments since.It was felt that Brown, who is facing a tough re -election battle in Massachusetts, would gain considerable Irish American support there by passing an E3 bill. Indeed, Brown had received very positive reaction at an Irish event he attended with Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny in Boston a few weeks ago.But Grassley has apparently refused to work out a compromise with Brown on the bill which could damage Brown back home.“It’s one thing to verbally come out and support it, which is great, but there has to be follow through,” said James Gallagher, head of the United Irish Counties of Massachusetts. “We’ve been led down the primrose path before.”A major renewed effort with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell involved is seen as the only way forward now by proponents of the Irish bill.The E3 visa would allow up to 10,000 Irish workers a year to come on non - immigrant visas that could be renewed every two years. Twenty other countries have visa bil deals with the US but Ireland has none.Senator Charles Schumer of New York has linked the fate of the Irish bill to the hi-tech bill which has already passed the House. Schumer has 53 Democratic votes behind his bill which is similar to Senator Brown’s.Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/GOP-Senator-Grassley-still-blocking-Irish-and-hi-tech-immigration-bill-in-US-Senate--142298295.html#ixzz1ovBzPCVF

Guest said...

http://www.nationaljournal.com/features/restoration-calls/gridlocked-out-20120314

Dealsodeals said...

Mr. Simon..  look back your family history.  This country is build by immigrants.. each and every brick is build by foreigners..  Every country have their own civilization, but not U.S.  From the day one, this country been taking people from outside.  so it should be first come first basis..   I do agree, people who born here have some rights..  but not they way you project.

Amaz said...

 Thank you for analysis.

I just realized how bad this bill is for ROW including me in EB2 category.

Need to hurry!!

Roomboy1981 said...

It's bad for Eb3, real bad.... 

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